It is one of the sturdiest types of armor, but is weak against siege attacks. It has decent defense against basic attacks, and great defense against piercing attacks and hero attacks.
Hero armor is used by heroes and a few special summons. It has decent defense against basic attacks and siege attacks, and great defense against piercing attacks. It is possible to achieve a negative armor value.
The resulting amplification of physical damage mirrors the damage reduction of positive armor, and is calculated using:. There is no limit to the maximum or minimum armor value the damage multiplier will therefor always be between 2 infinite negative armor and 0 infinite armor.
The Effective Hit Points , or EHP , of a hero is the amount of damage a hero is able to sustain before damage reductions. This allows a hero's durability to grow exponentially with armor.
By contrast, strength or raw HP items scale linearly. This is one of the main reasons why Agility heroes scale well and are often more survivable than Strength heroes late game.
This observation briefly popularized Slardar and Dazzle. Armor reduction is one of the most effective ways of killing tanky lategame agility heroes. These heroes are often reliant on their high armor to give them high EHP and durability.
This observation lead to the brief popularity of negative armor strategies at the pro-level during the Warcraft III Dota era.
At , Alliance barely clings to life with their ancient under assault. Akke drops a death ward, which has a physical damage output, as NiP's Era tries to attack the ancient down. Alongside an army of creeps it will take him about 8 — 10 seconds to kill the ancient.
Death ward would normally take about nine second to kill him given his EHP; the ancient should fall with a narrow margin of success. Now Era takes about seven seconds to die without factoring regen. In fact, none of NiP's heroes would live long enough to kill the ancient if they walked into the combination. The Acid Spray's negative armor helped create a situation where a comeback was possible. Armor increases the value of raw HP and vice-versa. There are diminishing returns to EHP growth from purchasing armor.
Let's imagine a hero with health and 0 armor. His effective HP is Now he buys 5 armor. He has EHP. He buys 5 more armor. In terms of EHP value, his health is going up linearly.
In terms of his percentage growth of EHP, he is gaining less with each additional armor. It's okay to just buy an inexpensive, casual piece of armor for survivability and sell it later, especially for tanky heroes with an extra item slot. That option is far better than dying because you greedily saved to get a big-ticket purchase thirty seconds faster.
Armor is typically better than HP if you have more than health. The exception is if you're against a heavily non-physical damage opponent, such as Silencer or [missing hero: outworld-devourer]. Armor has the best price-to-effect ratio in the mid game, but the highest impact in the late game. On average, armor items give about 1. Later game items do slightly better. HP and strength-based items give about 13 health per gold spent in the early game, about half that in the mid game, and about double that in the late game.
The exact measurements will differ per item, this is just a loose guildeline. So if you cross base HP, it will be more cost effective to build items such as Ring of Basilius than Bracer to deal with physical damage. While in lane, armor is best if you have at least HP. Overinvesting in armor leaves you vulnerable to magical or pure-damage nukes. For example, you're playing against a Lion with a level one Finger of Death.
Heroes who want to go to the jungle early benefit tremendously from small boosts of armor. Even a cheap Ring of Protection can extend your jungle sustain and will maximize the value of any health regeneration items.
Since armor increases EHP as a percentage of your base HP, it also means that armor increases the value of consumables. With no armor, the HP from a salve offsets exactly damage. Heroes who will tank jungle camps from level three or four and rely on the use of consumable regeneration, armor is an absolute must. Strength heroes' high health pools make them perfect armor bearers.
Tiny and Treant Protector are all examples of heroes whose core attributes and typical item builds give boatloads of raw hitpoints, and those heroes benefit the most from armor boosts. Heroes with high agility growth, such as Anti-Mage , Weaver , or Phantom Lancer will typically want to stay away from purchasing armor directly. These heroes tend to have very low strength gain, meaning they have low base HP. This is especially true later in the game where agility heroes will naturally have 16 — 25 armor.
Agility carries also often build Manta Style. Although illusions retain the hero's base armor—so they benefit from agility increases—they do not benefit from armor purchases. This makes HP gains far more effective at increasing illusions' survivability. Every seven points of agility give an agility hero one armor, in addition to increasing their attack speed and base damage, so if you need more armor it's typically more cost effective to purchase agility instead.
Int heroes tend to have moderate strength gain and low agility gain. They also typically avoid direct line of fire, trying to work around edges of fights, or initiate then fade back. Support Intelligence heroes should buy forms of armor that also help teammates, such as Ring of Basilius or Medallion of Courage. If your team has a total HP of , the Basilius Aura will add effective hitpoints. If you have more money to spare, you should of course never forget about Ghost Scepter , the ultimate protection against physical damage.
How to we stop tanky opponents who make strong build choices? Part of this comes down to draft and part to item builds, but here are the basic tools for those decisions.
Heroes with both high health and high armor should have their armor reduced. Generally save nuke damage for more susceptible targets. Heroes with high health and low armor can be handled by increasing physical damage alone.
Opponents with low health and high armor are the best targets for magical or pure damage nukes. Locking these heroes down is vital to killing them with attacks, but often not necessary if one or two solid bursts of magical damage are available especially before Spell Shield or other forms of protection are available. Yes, especially on Dire. Medallion of Courage only has a Why are these items so key as physical damage dealers become more prominent? Against a health hero, Medallion of Courage reduces effective hitpoints by It also means that armor reduction on backline targets can yield even crazier results than previously.
Dota mechanics are always an interesting topic to discuss, since they can fundamentally change how we approach the game. With the increase of armor effectiveness, the overall survivability of heroes should theoretically increase. At least when it comes to physical damage. At the same time, there are now slightly more sources of spell amplification—perhaps going forward we will actually see more magic damage dealing cores and magic damage lineups will become more relevant in the later stages of the game.
We've seen glimpses of it happening previously, so do keep an open mind for the next couple of months—Dota is still full of surprises. In a lineup with a lot of negative armor, this new version of Tidebringer will be absolutely devastating since it has such a high splash radius compared to the other splashes that are otherwise way worse off. This also means it's more important to stack armor in Kunkka centric enemy lineups. It isn't as good super late game without changing your battle strategy, but it's better for a good majority of the game by a long shot this is when Kunkka shines anyway.
Great Cleave is useless now though. All in all, cleave is in a bad place, but good old ValveFrog will likely overbuff splash at some point to compensate for the changes. Until then, only use splash heroes if you have -armor heroes on your team, or if you want to use kunkka with Assault Cuirass.
Armor stacking does not diminish, each point of armor exponentially grows your EHP against physical attacks as in any patch. You can simply prove it by going into a demo and stacking armor, then seeing how many attacks it takes to kill the hero.
Similar to this experiment which I made using a level 1 techies with 3 rapiers and a level 25 Axe, increasing his armor by 30 because call is 30 :. As can be seen, the attacks needed to kill the hero grow rather than reduce each time, with every 30 armor added. Now, the real question : is desolator a good item on kunkka now?
Probably not, but still worth asking though. You are not accounting for the Axe's natural regeneration. Level 1 techies with 3 rapiers attacks like once every 1. There is no point in arguing or doing uncontrolled tests when you can simply calculate hits to kill.
I just made a quick spreadsheet assuming HP and damage no regen. So it is like Law Of Diminishing return which is like in Economics, which means the more you get of a thing the additional utility satisfaction from each additional unit gives less and less. Nice concept as now the more armor doesn't simply imply that more physical resistance. The new changes simply moved the diminishing returns slightly further back. However, the most important change IMO is the effectiveness of early armour compared to the previous model.
It would also appear that negative armor is now more potent then it used to be. If you honestly think the percentage of total auto-attacks is meaningful, then you should really give up on trying to write these articles. Just because you can take a percentage of something doesn't mean you should.
Unless you want to be intentionally misleading. Not a lot of love for KawaiiSocks on here I see a lot of people who clearly think they can write better articles? I ignored hero regen in the hits to kill numbers.
I assumed 0 regeneration in order to show the effect of armor only. I simply divided health left by damage per hit the first hit which excluded any regen. But you're right hero regen makes the armor even more valuable. It is in no way linear. Test it yourself in a demo and use the numbers you get from one low variance hit with different amounts of armor and you will come to the same conclusion.
The only time that stacking armor vs physical is no longer worth it, is when you can buy an item which provides a significant amount of HP, lifesteal, regen or utility which combos well with your already high armor. Even then, if the enemies are pure physical you can stack AC and shivas on your DK or Axe all you want.
First of all, we are probably far from practical Dota and fully in the theoretical space. We are not debating builds, strategies or anything of the sorts and are not making meaningful suggestions for players to improve their gameplay and win more games.
Now to the debate itself: I think we might have misunderstood each other and I have also underestimated the overall impact of the armor changes. Each point of Armor increases your effective HP more or less linearly, fully linearly in the old formula.
Link to google doc with the spreadsheet. Everyone feel free to copy and play with the Health and Attack values:.
Let's start with the second point. You are absolutely correct in the fact that EHP you gain from armor now increases. I've initially assumed the effect is going to be much smaller, so wrote it off as "more or less the same as old formula". Turns out I was wrong in assuming the effect is subtle. As I said previously, the armor is more effective, but turns out it also meaningfully increases in its effectiveness for each point.
There was no growth previously, there is growth now. Now to the more interesting bit and the probable source of confusion. Though, maybe, the subjective cutoff point is slightly higher. Now why do I believe that armor has diminishing returns? It really depends on what you consider "value" of the armor is. There is a difference between "how many extra hits does it take to kill me with this extra armor" and "how many extra hits does it take to kill me with this extra armor, compared to how many hits it took to kill me before".
Because in the first case your grandma gifts you a shiny new plate of armor and you think: "oh wow, it now takes 5 more hits to kill me, that's awesome, thanks grandma! And you are very happy. In the second case, you still have the same HP and armor and are gifted the same exact new shiny plate of armor by the exact same grandma, but she also slips a note saying: "You know, it already took hits to kill you before.
Believe in yourself! You didn't really need that armor to be great! And now, instead of thinking "oh wow, that's awesome", you think: "Grandma, WTF? Though you still awkwardly pretend you are. Note how everything stays the same: you starting HP, Armor and Grandma. The only thing that's changing is the perspective. Armor has diminishing returns even in the new formula.
Its effectiveness rises only in the new patch , but it doesn't rise fast enough to prevent the loss of effectiveness associated with stacking it more on that later. For every extra point of armor you do get slightly more effective HP, but as a percentage of what your effective HP is already, the effect is diminishing.
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